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posted by silent_majority in Politics

Is the political growth of Islam really a threat to the West?

December 20, 2011

Can we have a civil discussion about the modern realities and the impact of Islam on the modern world?

Please be respectful and mature...no "towelheads" or other derogatory terms...and no knee jerk "Islamaphobe" or "bigot" comments. Let's stick to the facts and views in a civilized manner please?

Preemptive statement...before anyone cites Christians who kill for their beliefs, I am talking about the leadership and political power of the Islamic leaders worldwide. Show me a modern day Christian branch with millions (thousands, even) of people following them who's leadership behaves in this manner or calls for death to their opposition, or physical harm to those who aren't their kind of Christians.

These are my observations based on the behaviors I see. I do not fear those different from me, and have never felt threatened by any religious group. You want to be Wiccan, Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Taoist, whatever...pleased to meet you, and I think most anyone would agree and not fear you. I propose the modern (and rapidly growing) Conservative Islam section is different from all other modern religions, as it actively advocate oppression and violence against it's own people and others. I also propose the lack of staunch opposition from the Moderate Muslim sector to these practices causes the appearance of agreement by non-action.

I present the following opinions, with real world incidences and facts to back them. If you disagree, please counter with your own facts or corrections. I don't claim to be an expert, merely a layman who is stating observations. If you have facts to counter the examples below, please provide them so we can discuss.

1- The majority of Islam is an enemy of free speech.

Draw a cartoon depiction of Mohammed in a newspaper. Or write a book disputing the origins of some verses from the Qur'an. You will get a death sentence for it. You will also not see moderate Muslim groups actively coming to your defense and protection. For one,they know they are the minority, and secondly even though they may think some of the hardline methods harsh, they tend to agree with spirit of the edict (that Infidels should be punished severely for drawing a picture of Mohammed).

http://www.seattleweekly.com/2010-09-15/news/on-the-advice-of-the-fbi-ca...

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/09/seattle-...

Molly Norris is in hiding (with no help from her "moderate" Muslim "friends" at or even the FBI that) after the "Draw Mohammed Day" post on Facebook drew the attention (and Fatwa) of a Radical cleric. Why didn't the Western Moderate Muslims speak up in her defense on the basis of free speech and offer to protect her?

Salman Rushdie still has a death sentence on his head issued by the Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran. Last time I checked, he was not a small radical leader. In early 2005, Khomeini's fatwā was reaffirmed by Iran's current spiritual leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, in a message to Muslim pilgrims making the annual pilgrimage to Mecca.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_Rushdie#The_Satanic_Verses_and_the_f...

2- The majority of Islam in general and Sharia Law specifically are terribly oppressive to women.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375168/Sharia-Law-A-woman-whipp...

http://www.now.org/issues/global/082202sharia.html

http://www.cfr.org/religion/islam-governing-under-sharia/p8034

No long details needed here...this is self-evident in practice in numerous Islamic controlled countries, and even in some majority Islamic communities in Western countries. From women having 1/2 the voice of men in their court, to bans on equal freedoms to women, this is common practice under Sharia and Islam as a majority. (NOTE - I said majority...there are some moderate Muslims who believe in equal rights for women, but they in the minority.)

3- The majority of Islam is anti-personal liberties.

Muslim and homosexual?

[quote]"Same-sex intercourse carries the death penalty in five officially Muslim nations: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Mauritania, Sudan, and Yemen. [3] It formerly carried the death penalty in Afghanistan under the Taliban, and in Iraq under a 2001 decree by Saddam Hussein. The legal situation in the United Arab Emirates is unclear. In many Muslim nations, such as Bahrain, Qatar, Algeria or the Maldives, homosexuality is punished with jail time, fines or corporal punishment. In some Muslim-majority nations, such as Turkey, Jordan, Egypt, or Mali, same-sex intercourse is not forbidden by law. However, in Egypt gays have been the victims of laws against "morality".

In Saudi Arabia, the maximium punishment for homosexuality is public execution, but the government will use other punishments, i.e. fines, jail time and whipping as alternatives, unless it feels that homosexuals are challenging state authority by engaging in a gay rights movement. [4] Iran is perhaps the nation to execute the largest number of its citizens for homosexuality. Since its Islamic revolution in Iran, the Iranian government has executed more than 4000 people charged with homosexual acts. In Afghanistan after the fall of the Taliban homosexuality went from a capital crime to one that it punished with fines and prison sentence, and a similar situation seems to have occurred in Iraq. [/quote]

(the source may be questionable to some, but I challenge you to dispute the info with countering facts)
http://www.religionfacts.com/homosexuality/islam.htm

Have to go to court? You get no lawyer or jury, nor even the ability to cite precedence. You get a holy man who will pass judgement on you based on nothing more than the ability of (as an example) 2 men or 4 women saying you are guilty.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/08/top_ten_reasons_why_sharia_is.html

4- Islam at large is NOT the religion of peace it claims to be

If you do something the clerics deem "offensive" to Islam, their solution is to cause you physical damage or death (see above for examples). If you leave Islam, then you are an Apostate. This is still a death sentence in many Islamic countries. If you have been accused of causing someone to leave Islam, then this is also Death. Consider the riots this year in Egypt when Coptic Christians supposedly had converted an Islamic woman and were hiding her in their church from armed Muslim mobs gathering outside chanting 'There is no God but Allah'. The government and military stood by and watched it all happen, as they side with the establishment of hardline Islamic law in the country. Look in the headlines, and see how the youth from the "Arab Spring" there are being treated now.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-05-08-egypt-church-arrests_n.htm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/10/egypt-coptic-christians_n_10043...

And don't forget about the countries surrounding Israel who have made no secret they wish to annihilate the entire race of Jews. The added use of propaganda such as the labels "Supreme Leader", "Zionists", and "Infidels" certainly doesn't make them look more stable. but then, our use of slurs doesn't help our cause either.

Bring on the debate...but please do keep it civil and intelligent.

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